Many people have said Heraclitus is wrong, that the world is permanent. I say it from a totally different direction and I know Heraclitus will have to agree with me, because I am not contradicting his basic standpoint, I am refining it. When he says you cannot step twice, he is trying to say that everything is changing; the wife is not the same, the husband is not the same. If people are awake, I don’t think there will be so much despair, gloom, grumpiness, so many complaints about everything.
The husband is bored because it is the same wife, the same geography he has to explore every day. The wife is also bored; the moment the husband starts making an approach, immediately she has a heart attack, a headache, anything will do, but somehow, “At least one holiday – just go to sleep silently, don’t disturb me.” And this is the same woman who had been dreaming about this man one day, writing beautiful poems and letters to him – and this is the same man.
What has happened? What went wrong? Why are they thinking to divorce each other? They have become bored, and they think that the other is responsible for the boredom. My point is that your sleep is responsible for all boredom. No divorce is going to help: the other person will bore you just the same.
What does it take to wake up?
It needs people who can shock you. Your sleep is deep; it is no ordinary sleep, it is spiritual sleep. You need people who can shock you and break all your shock absorbers. Every person has grown buffers around his sleep. Even if a shock is given, the buffers absorb it, it never reaches to the person.
The real function of a religious man is to teach how to break the buffers, how to come out of the shell of darkness in which you have been living for many lives. No prayer is going to help, only a master; and by a master I mean a craftsman who has broken his own buffers, who has somehow sneaked out of the shell of sleep. That is the function of a master. But all the so-called religious leaders go on putting more buffers on you.
I just spent two weeks covering Billy Graham, who is a Southern Baptist evangelist.
I know him.
What do you think of him and people like him?
Just worthless, and dangerous to people’s spirituality, because these people like Billy Graham – who are helping people, comforting people, consoling people – are making their buffers thicker and thicker. These are not the people who shock you. You need a Gurdjieff, you need a Krishnamurti, not Billy Graham. Billy Graham is simply a good salesman amongst sleepers. And, of course, sleepers will be very much impressed; this man is giving them what they want.