Shohei – Suibi’s disciple – asked Suibi, “What is the meaning of Bodhidharma’s coming from the West?”
Suibi said, “I’ll tell you later when nobody is around.”
Sometime later, Shohei said, “Now, there is nobody. Please master, tell me the answer.”
Suibi, getting down from the Zen stool, took Shohei to the bamboo garden. Again, Shohei asked, “Now, there is nobody. Please master, tell me the answer.”
Suibi, pointing to the bamboos, said, “This bamboo is that long, that bamboo is that short.”
First the questions from the sannyasins.
The first question:
The other day you spoke about Fritjof Capra. Can you speak about the movement of transpersonal psychology, and in particular about the work and meditation of Ken Wilbur, who is said to be the founder of the spectrum psychology?
Why don’t such people come here? Are they imprisoned in being too established? Is your vision and its practical consequences the problem for them?
The first thing to be understood is that I am not dealing with psychology. Psychology remains attached to the mind; it is the science of the mind. And my whole work is how to take you out of the mind, so these people will take me as if I am their enemy.
They are working out how the mind functions, whether it is personal or interpersonal, what are its conditionings and how those conditionings can be changed with new conditionings. Their whole work – whether they call it interpersonal psychology or spectrum psychology – remains confined to the mind. And my world, the world of Zen, is the world of no-mind.
We simply don’t want to bother about all the rubbish that mind is carrying from centuries. If you get involved in it, you can go on digging and digging, and you will find more bullshit coming out. It is better just to take a jump out of it; it is not you. It is the whole conditioning of mankind, from generation to generation. Every mind concept has traveled to you, and it is becoming thicker and thicker every day. As time passes, you have a thicker mind, and meditation becomes more difficult.
These people are not concerned with meditation at all, hence there is no question of their being here. Secondly, they think they have found the answer. Obviously, a person who thinks he has found the answer will not go seeking the truth anywhere, but will remain confined in his own imagination.
Mind cannot be anything more than images, thoughts, sentiments, moods. Mind is not your nature, but an imposition by the society on your purity.
These people will feel at a loss here, because whatever they have been doing we are throwing out – and they have been collecting. They will get great stuff if they come – just to collect. Every evening so much rubbish is thrown. They can collect and enjoy analyzing it.