Individual Talk

Osho Audiobook - Individual Talk: Live Zen, # 5, (mp3) - dependent, clouds, setcho


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Signatures on Water

Talk #5 of the Series, Live Zen

Obaku says there is no Zen teacher. It seems to me therefore that there can be no disciples. So who are you and who are we?

And the second question: Obaku seems to be saying that one cannot know Zen by experiencing one particle of brewer's grain. But I have heard you say, 'Taste one drop of the ocean, and you know the whole ocean.'
Can you please comment?

"Maneesha, Zen is the very principle of existence. Whether there is anyone who teaches it or not, whether there is anyone who learns it or not, it is there. Zen is the very heartbeat of existence. It is not dependent on any teaching, not dependent on any masters, not dependent on disciples. Masters come and go, disciples come and disappear; Zen remains."
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Osho International
91 mins
22.02 MB
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Osho continues:
"Just as it is. It is always just as it is.

"I have made my comment.

"Now I will take the anecdote:
Obaku addressed the assembly and said, 'You are all partakers of brewer's grain. If you go on studying Zen like that, you will never finish it. Do you know that in all the land of T'ang there is no Zen teacher?'
Then a monk came forward and said, 'But surely there are those who teach disciples and preside over the assemblies. What about that?'
Obaku said, 'I do not say that there is no Zen, but that there is no Zen teacher.'
"I hope things are very simple.

"If there is no Catholic church, no pope, there will be no Christianity, because Christianity has nothing to do with existence's essence. If there is no shankaracharya and no Hindu monks, existence will just remain the same as it is. Their being or not being does not affect existence. Certainly their doctrines will disappear, their congregations will not be held anymore. Their teachers and their masters and their disciples will not be there. And if these people think Hinduism is dependent on these scriptures, shankaracharyas, then certainly there will be no Hinduism either.

"Except Zen, no religion has been so intensely clear about its own existential status. The others are only aware about their theologies, their scriptures, their teachers, their masters, their disciples. They are all very superficial – just waves on the ocean. But Zen has never for a single moment identified itself with the waves. It consistently emphasizes, 'I am the ocean. Waves come and go; the ocean remains. Many more waves will come and go; it does not affect the ocean in any way.'

"Obaku was right when he said that there is no Zen. There were many teachers and many followers, but they don't constitute the reality of Zen.

"For example, one day I was not and one day I will be again not. The same is true about each of you. But the essence of existence knows no change; it remains. And that essence of existence is called Zen. It is not an ordinary religion like Hinduism, Christianity, Mohammedanism, Buddhism, Jainism, Judaism – I am including even Buddhism – because Zen is the essence; everything else is just commentary."
In this title, Osho talks on the following topics:

dependent… clouds… fake… setcho… basho

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